The big problem with tuned engines in air cooled form is the carb set ups...you see "jetted for 1776"
Or "suit 1641". All tuned engines need to be dynoed or set on a rolling road,once you've been once you would understand.
Make sure what you have is 100% good before you spend anymore.

Dave

As a self taught DIY none mechanic who has learnt how to do stuff as and when it breaks I have found my modified 1915 engine a bit of a pain at times. It was buit by a previous owner to 'keep up with modern traffic' etc and has external oil cooler, bespoke sand seal, electronic ignition fuel pump and the like. It performs well but when replacing parts, balancing carbs and fitting exhausts it has never been straight forward - I invariably buy twice as many bits as necessary to make sure everything fits whilst engine is out to save on time and make sure everything can be done in a day/weekend. Much of this is down to my lack of experience but I have come to expect that anything needed will be none standard.

The irony of me having a modified engine is that I actually drive it like I have always driven previous vans and beetles with stock setups - plod along at 60. I am always conscious of engine temps, checking that everything seems ok and currently get annoyed with the noisey exhaust...maybe it's old age but I know when the time comes to change (when funds allow) my preference will be for a straight forward 1500/1600 setup with a nice standard exhaust.

I kind of miss the purr and whistle from previous stock 1200 setups in beetles and the knowledge that parts are as described in the manuals. I currently have the van filled with all sorts of spares... Just in case something breaks whereas with my last 1200 beetle was confident enough venturing anywhere with just spare points and condenser.

Having said all the above there is nothing stock about any of the vans running gear so a slightly naughty engine goes withe territory.... In fear of venturing into future discussion topics so will stop there. On balance my verdict would sway towards stock - largely due to being an engine numpty who is better at following instructions/manuals than using my initiative

^^ thats exactly how i drove my 1776, steady and carefully, watching and listening to everything all the time
thats really the main reason the move back to 1500sp was so great, 1st thing, I can hardly hear it, but, yep, so plant my foot and wait for the power surge (….still waiting…hahaha)

MODIFIED...

I have a bit of bias here as I run an 1955cc of 44 id's with a c45 cam. It was built right over 10 years ago and has seen a fair amount of mileage. It is a powerful engine and has taken some time to get just right, for me it has been well worth the effort as it provides great performance and drivability as well as economy. Yes... if driven sensibly I believe that the economy is on par if not slightly better than a stock engine. It has been completely reliable to date and i have been able to service and maintain it myself. Servicing is slightly more involved than a stock engine, but nothing that cannot be learnt in a few hours.

There are a great number of components that can go into a performance engine and the combination and quality of these can greatly influence the outcome of how good the engine is, this and who is building the engine.

However...

STOCK

I have recommended on a number of occasions to people on here and friends to go down the stock route. Why? because if you go down the modified route there are a lot of other changes required as well. More horsepower means the requirement for better brakes, changes to the running gear such as the gearbox and possibly wheels too. I would not recommend the modified route until the owner has driven their bus in stock form for at least 6 months.

I liken this to people putting salt on their food before tasting it.

A well maintained and tuned stock engine is completely reliable, economical and a pleasure to drive. It will keep up in most cases with modern traffic with the exception of motorways and fast a roads. It may be a bit slower up long hills however its always nice to take in the scenery!

Stock engines are underrated and often get bad press from many who do not have a clue what they are talking about of have never experienced a good one.

In summary an interesting debate, definitely two sides to the agreement and from my point of view, no right answer. It really is horses for courses...

Stock - Supercharged

I have only ever experienced stock. I've owned an air cooled since 1991 and my present van for the last 22 years and all have had stock engines.

I'm definitely not a devotee, but the positive side of all this is that I now understand a stock air cooled engine and can overcome most hiccups in the drive or at the roadside. I do all my own servicing and check its health frequently. Admittedly my van is on its 3rd engine, but the first engine was a heap of dung that came with the van... the second was a cheap and cheerful 2nd hand replacement, but I spent money on the 3rd and (touch wood) it behaves as VW intended. I also nurse it along at 50-55mph and watch the temp gauge religiously - ensuring it hovers between 80-100 deg C and never sneaks over 110 deg C. I've just finished a 500 mile trip last week without any issues what so ever.

I think modified engines sound better, drive better and I also think lowered vans look, drive and probably brake better... but I love my old girl for what she is!

I have an 1835 with twin baby dells in my split and Caroline has a bog standard 1500sp in hers. Mine zips up hills (we are in Devon!) hers plods up them. Hers is very quiet, mine is noisy - you really can't run a stock exhaust on an 1835 so I have to fit a boomer. Hers does 30mpg, mine does 26mpg. Both are reliable because I buy good quality parts and I service both engines regularly, changing oil at 2500 miles. It's all swings and roundabouts with engines, especially when you haven't built them yourself. But however stock or modified they are, unless you look after them you will get trouble. That's why the forums get pathetic threads about "engine has stopped" and "engine won't start". Having said that, I just sorted an engine that conked out after a very expensive 'service' by a well known 'VW specialist'. If only he had lubricated the points cam in the dizzy

the bus driver wrote:
Ie. my engine has never even peaked above 89 degrees celsius even with temps reaching 40 outside. I have got a better cooling system than the OG. Also added a larger oil cooler. Result = equal colors on my cylinders. (I have only ever heard my external cooling come on twice in the last 3 years)
Cylinder 3 is the first to melt down when your engine is overheating, this is a failure by VW = proven fact!

Over cooling can be just as damaging as over heating. The oil needs to get above 80 degrees to get the water from the condensation out of it. Hense the sludge build up people get when only doing short runs. Number 3 overheating was a problem until the dog house fan housing was introduced and this helped keep No3 cool. If all and I mean all the tinware is in place this should not be a problem. Also timing and valve clearances need to be correct. I'm amazed at the number of people that don't check these from time to time.

Stock is fine but I like to keep up with modern traffic I run a 1641 with twin Weber 36's and an external oil filter with added rocker cover breathers. That's as far as the mod will be going with me. Easy and cheap to maintain and run and reliable. On a run I seem to be between 90-100 degrees which I think is pretty spot on.

for me it all depends how modified the engine is, i run a mild 1776, all tinware is stock and everything is there including the little peice of tin that sits around the base of the oil cooler known as the hoover bit. It has twin 34icts and to its no harder to tune or look after than a stock 1600 apat from you have to spin on a new oil filter ooohh hard job....not. Its just as reliable as a stock motor if you use good qaulity parts, oil and look after it as you should/

Where as a big stroker motor i imagine is a bit trickier

I run a stock 30hp, with irregualr maintenance. Suffering now for it, but it has been very kind to me, more than I deserve! Runs sweet but we always had compression issues with it that I stuck my head in the sand over. Several European show road trips and green laning/off road expeditions under it's belt.

Performance wise it will sit at 50mph quite happily. 55 if pushed, but more often than not will plod at 45. Cylinder head temps usually about 140.
Don't talk to me about hills though ... Often down to 30 and 3rd gear, which can take a bit of getting used too if you do a lot of motorway miles like us. Never bothered me, but if you are not used to driving a classic ... (And on the OCD I was knocked back to 1st gear several times on the really steep hills.)
Does about 28mpg on a good day. (Or 250 miles on a full 9 gallon/41 litre tank)

I love it to bits, literally. I'm not sure I'd recommend it to others though. I'm doing my best to avoid modern life in general, way too fast for me. I think my way of using my bus, with little concession to any modern 21st century safety rules, is unacceptable to most people today.

In the very near future, a 1500sp with 1600 B&P's, 12v, later dog house fan housing is going in. Not really to increase the speed, just a little more oomph on hills, as we ask too much of our 1200, with a heavy roof tent and camping gear on board.

I have a 'stock' 1500sp. Technically it's a mod for my 1962 bus as the 1500 wasn't introduced as an option until 1963 but it's close enough. Running original <62 stale air heat exchangers which are less good at heating but give good ground clearance compared to later ones.

Alternator failed the last time I drove it and the bus has been off the road since; but otherwise it has been bombproof and even with no alternator it still did 700 miles that day. I suspect the engine was Matt Keane built and serviced prior to me getting it so that might explain why it's done me so well.


So to answer the question, benefits to me:

1. It works reliably and is low maintenance. If something works I tend to not touch it because if I do then it won't work repeatedly for a period of years until I've learnt the hard way what I should have been doing all along.

2. It is fast enough to keep up with 'modern traffic.' I like sitting in the slow lane, it gives more people a chance to wave at me as they go past and it avoids the stress of all the traffic bunching and being hounded by angry BMW drivers on your bumper in the fast lane. I actually took this life stance before I got my bus. The bus will do 70 happily but I tend to do 55-60 as with no gauges and very good sound insulation (mostly filler) I've no idea what I'm putting it through!

3. It has enough power to get up hills. Typical cargo = me, +/-1x girlfirend, 2x 6' fibreglass surfboards, 1x duvet, enough rum and cider to sink a battleship. I tend to buy the cider locally though to save on petrol. I don't have heavy family, camping gear, trailer, roof rack, bikes, dogs etc so I don't need the extra power. I have twice ever had to change into third on one of those long Devon hills. But it always scampered up the steeper Cornish ones no problem at all (better than our old T25).

4. I can't afford anything bigger. Yes, I'll admit it if money was no object I'd get someone to build me a nice reliable torquey 2110 but money is an object so I don't.

5. Did I mention it works? (so far...)

Modified.
My bus lives on the motorway at 70mph loaded with camping kit and surfing kit.
It's a well built engine that is serviced as it should be and has only had 2 issues - alternator bearing munched and pedestal snapped. So not really a problem with the engine, more the ancillaries. I don't have a stupid cam, an engle 100, so it's fine in traffic. It's better since I fitted a larger fan assisted cooler. I notice the difference on that first big hill on the A361 as you come of the M5
Like everything, do it right, do it properly, use quality parts and get it services regularly and by someone that knows what they're doing.
I had a stock 1200 in my bug and that was okay as well and extremely reliable. But maaaaaan, was it slooooooooow on the hills.
I would gladly drive either of them to Scotland and back without doing any more than checking the oil before i left. That's because they were built and looked after as they should have been.
An unserviced thrashed stock engine built with cr@p Chinese parts will be just as unreliable as an unserviced thrashed modified engine built with cr@p Chinese parts.


Cheers, Lee.

Edit........bug ran a stock 1200 with top end rebuild by unknown person but obviously knew what he was doing as there were never any issues with it, bus runs a Laurie Pettitt 1776 - enough said

I drive a 60 year old stock bus with its 60 year old original 36hp engine, rebuilt by myself during the resto.
I love it, it will sit all day at 55mph and if driven properly ie: using the gearbox goes up hills, albeit slower no problem.

Stock engines are easy to maintain with a ready supply of spares, saying that original 36hp spares are getting harder to find.

Mike1973 wrote:(And on the OCD I was knocked back to 1st gear several times on the really steep hills.)

On the OCD trip I only dropped into second once due to traffic, I guess that's the difference between a well sorted engine and a
badly maintained, knackered one.

I realise life in the slow lane is not for every one but I enjoy the whole experience, making the journey part of the holiday.

I could if I wanted afford a much bigger engine but that's not what owning a classic vehicle is about for me.