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MC fowling on anti roll bar
MC fowling on anti roll bar
by crsedgar » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:34 pm
Trying to correct a cock up either by restoration company or the previous owner. The master cylinder is fowling on the anti roll bar and was hoping someone could list my available options;
I have a 67 bus, not sure if this is the original dual circuit MC or a later bay version. I read on Creative Engineering in their 'shocks' section that once lowered anti roll bar is not necessary unless you are driving to the 'extremes' whatever that may be, I have 1600 twin port so I assume I would fall out with that category.
Attached a couple of pictures.
I have adjustable front beam and was going to raise it a few notches as there is some occasional rubbing when going over pot holes etc but not sure if that would resolve this.
Thanks in advance
Chris
I have a 67 bus, not sure if this is the original dual circuit MC or a later bay version. I read on Creative Engineering in their 'shocks' section that once lowered anti roll bar is not necessary unless you are driving to the 'extremes' whatever that may be, I have 1600 twin port so I assume I would fall out with that category.
Attached a couple of pictures.
I have adjustable front beam and was going to raise it a few notches as there is some occasional rubbing when going over pot holes etc but not sure if that would resolve this.
Thanks in advance
Chris
crsedgar
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Re: MC fowling on anti roll bar
by type21f » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:13 pm
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Re: MC fowling on anti roll bar
by crsedgar » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:21 pm
Bus is currently on axle stands but measuring from tyre to wheel arch 2.5inches.
Its pretty crowded.
Its pretty crowded.
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Re: MC fowling on anti roll bar
by seablue67 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:13 pm
The roll bar will come up with no weight on the wheels.
During driving it will be miles away as in the other photos. But check with the bus on the ground using a torch to see etc.
Personally a roll bar I think is good for all ride heights. if the bus is so low and not tubbed that the wheels are within a cm or 2 of the arches then yes a roll bar is largely pointless as any roll will result in the wheel just rubbing on the arches. But properly set up with the right shocks etc, then i think a roll bar is good even in the heavily dropped buses.
Depending on the choice of beam adjusters dropping a bus normally involves rotating both sets of leaves, so no stiffness is added/lost. if its a single adjuster type then rotating only one set of leaves will mean the other set is wound up and therefore stiffer (same can be achieved but rotating each different amounts). But it does not act as an anti-roll bar, it only stiffens it all up.
During driving it will be miles away as in the other photos. But check with the bus on the ground using a torch to see etc.
Personally a roll bar I think is good for all ride heights. if the bus is so low and not tubbed that the wheels are within a cm or 2 of the arches then yes a roll bar is largely pointless as any roll will result in the wheel just rubbing on the arches. But properly set up with the right shocks etc, then i think a roll bar is good even in the heavily dropped buses.
Depending on the choice of beam adjusters dropping a bus normally involves rotating both sets of leaves, so no stiffness is added/lost. if its a single adjuster type then rotating only one set of leaves will mean the other set is wound up and therefore stiffer (same can be achieved but rotating each different amounts). But it does not act as an anti-roll bar, it only stiffens it all up.
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Re: MC fowling on anti roll bar
by crsedgar » Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:31 pm
OK thanks for the feedback. I'll have a good look once its off the stands. Both beams have adjuster s.
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Re: MC fowling on anti roll bar
by maddison » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:23 am
the lower the bus, the more clearance you will have
on stands, you have no clearance, as the ARB is attached along the torsion arm….i.e facing up at about 220 degrees(7 o'clock to 1 o'clock) (from rear of torsion arm (where the spindle is) to the front where the torsion leaves are) the PIVOTAL POINT being , where the torsion leaves are, so the more the rear point of the ARB goes DOWN, the more the front point goes UP
once the bus is on its wheels, the ARB is probably facing up as a shallower angle , maybe 250 degrees(8 o'clock to 2 o'clock) (hence why it clears the brake, rear has come up, so front has gone down
Lower a bus to more extreme amounts…..say for example, the torsion arms are level (270 degrees)(9o'clock to 3 o'clock) then the ARB sits level
REALLY slam a bus, so your torsion arms are facing up at the spindle end, lets say approx 300 degrees (10 o'clock to 4 o'clock) then your getting into dangerous territory as the front edge of the ARB will be heading down at the same angle …sitting lower than the lowest point of your beam and in danger of catching on drains, curbs and pot holes
so if your going really low….dont fit a standard ARB and not expect it to be the 1st thing you wreck (and hope you don't do a lot more damage as its forced to bend , clamped tightly to your torsion arms…ouch !!!!
on stands, you have no clearance, as the ARB is attached along the torsion arm….i.e facing up at about 220 degrees(7 o'clock to 1 o'clock) (from rear of torsion arm (where the spindle is) to the front where the torsion leaves are) the PIVOTAL POINT being , where the torsion leaves are, so the more the rear point of the ARB goes DOWN, the more the front point goes UP
once the bus is on its wheels, the ARB is probably facing up as a shallower angle , maybe 250 degrees(8 o'clock to 2 o'clock) (hence why it clears the brake, rear has come up, so front has gone down
Lower a bus to more extreme amounts…..say for example, the torsion arms are level (270 degrees)(9o'clock to 3 o'clock) then the ARB sits level
REALLY slam a bus, so your torsion arms are facing up at the spindle end, lets say approx 300 degrees (10 o'clock to 4 o'clock) then your getting into dangerous territory as the front edge of the ARB will be heading down at the same angle …sitting lower than the lowest point of your beam and in danger of catching on drains, curbs and pot holes
so if your going really low….dont fit a standard ARB and not expect it to be the 1st thing you wreck (and hope you don't do a lot more damage as its forced to bend , clamped tightly to your torsion arms…ouch !!!!
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Re: MC fowling on anti roll bar
by 8 8US » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:29 am
Stevemaddison wrote:the lower the bus, the more clearance you will have
on stands, you have no clearance, as the ARB is attached along the torsion arm….i.e facing up at about 220 degrees(7 o'clock to 1 o'clock) (from rear of torsion arm (where the spindle is) to the front where the torsion leaves are) the PIVOTAL POINT being , where the torsion leaves are, so the more the rear point of the ARB goes DOWN, the more the front point goes UP
once the bus is on its wheels, the ARB is probably facing up as a shallower angle , maybe 250 degrees(8 o'clock to 2 o'clock) (hence why it clears the brake, rear has come up, so front has gone down
Lower a bus to more extreme amounts…..say for example, the torsion arms are level (270 degrees)(9o'clock to 3 o'clock) then the ARB sits level
REALLY slam a bus, so your torsion arms are facing up at the spindle end, lets say approx 300 degrees (10 o'clock to 4 o'clock) then your getting into dangerous territory as the front edge of the ARB will be heading down at the same angle …sitting lower than the lowest point of your beam and in danger of catching on drains, curbs and pot holes
so if your going really low….dont fit a standard ARB and not expect it to be the 1st thing you wreck (and hope you don't do a lot more damage as its forced to bend , clamped tightly to your torsion arms…ouch !!!!
That is a problem I have, although maybe not that extreme, my ARB is now flat on the leading edge from scraping on speed humps and undulations in the road, will I notice any difference if I bin it?
Richard
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Re: MC fowling on anti roll bar
by maddison » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:48 am
dunno, but if you remove it and don't notice a difference….i'll buy it off you for when i go back to stock beam
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Re: MC fowling on anti roll bar
by vwJim » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:57 am
You don't have the ' usual' m/c fitted which is why the ARB is hitting the m/c.
If you swapped it, it would clear fine.
IMHO, CE are talking out of their @#?! when they tell people to remove / leave ARB's off. They make a huge positive improvement to handling and stability.
If you swapped it, it would clear fine.
IMHO, CE are talking out of their @#?! when they tell people to remove / leave ARB's off. They make a huge positive improvement to handling and stability.
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Re: MC fowling on anti roll bar
by type21f » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:06 pm
Yes and if anyone has an ARB they have removed to fit red9 suspension....if you do not plan to refit it ...I would like to buy...
I fitted one to Peebles for the very points made by seablue67 + VWjim et al...
VW introduced them in 1967 to improve ride and handling..
I fitted one to Peebles for the very points made by seablue67 + VWjim et al...
VW introduced them in 1967 to improve ride and handling..
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Re: MC fowling on anti roll bar
by crsedgar » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:04 pm
Now the bus is back on the ground I have measured the distance between ARB and MC, I measured 3cm. Have added a couple of pics. I have adjusters on both front beams and was planning on raising the bus at least 1inch if that's within range.
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Re: MC fowling on anti roll bar
by crsedgar » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:16 pm
Jim, the dual master cylinder you sell is that shorter in length than the Bay version I have (195mm to the bracket)?
Regards
Chris
Regards
Chris
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Re: MC fowling on anti roll bar
by vwJim » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:35 pm
yes, that Bay version you have is longer than the traditional way of going dual circuit.
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