Need a bit of spec history on the subject of safaris.
I'm fitting a front screen lower section and front panel to my bus and I have a safari set here that I need to identify.
The set I have for my bus are early mild steel and the question is, who made them? The depth measurement taken from the top of the hinge roll to the bottom of the frame is 455mm. (At the "A" post side)
I also have a friend's bus here with a set of Creative stainless steel safaris that measure 446mm.
The difference of some 9mm is a bit puzzling to say the least!
Obviously, The position of the lower frame is quite important as I don't really want to weld it on so far out of position to suit the safaris and then not be able to fit standard front screens. Any informed info would be welcome! Steve

Photos might help

Hiya Jim. Here's a few pics. As far as I can see, the hinges are mild steel and they look like they are bonded to the frames which would sujest they are from Creative but have a look.

Look like genuine VW ones. Aren't Creative's aluminium?

I've an idea that the early Creatives were mild steel and the latest are stainless steel. I can see what you mean though. They do look like early genuine VW frames but I'm not sure. I seam to remember I read somewhere that the early standard windscreens were a tad bigger.
Think I may give Creative a call to learn a bit!

Safari glass is smaller because of the addition of a frame. CE glass is also slightly thinner than VW safari glass I believe.

Hope this helps

**edit. CE frames are aluminium. Available in primered or polished. As per their website. They don't list stainless ones as far as I can see.

Yes, I know that as I've got the glass out of the frames but I haven't measured the thickness yet. Think I'll make that call to Creative tomorrow and see what they say.
Meanwhile, if I position the body frame so they fit, the body frame aperture is considerably larger than that of the other bus on my drive.

Early Creative safaris were mild steel so possibly that's what you have. New are as said aluminium and the same profile as the ones in the pictures.

split the frames....og VW are double skinned.

lower corners depending on year/og/repro have different drain holes

dash tab mounts from glass side give an indication of og year too.

Creative's early steel ones have brazed on hinges/slider/tab mounts

Shouldn't be any change post barndoor to size of frames from what I have read....there is debate on hinge position early/late due to the body recess.



Personally I don't really get your question...surely you fit the panel where it should go and not worry about your safaris....get a couple of window aperture dimensions of og buses

The point is that if I position the panel where it should be, these safaris will not fit. I find it very strange that there is so much difference in size between the two sets of safaris. The stainless set do not have the same profile as the mild steel set.
When i got this bus, I found that the new front panel had been fitted 15mm too high and I couldn't fit the standard front screens at all. So here I am now, with two sets of safaris that are not the same size. If anyone has a set of safaris and knows who made them, could you measure them please and let me have the info.
many thanks

Stick with creative dimensions. They are exact copies. If I'd seen this earlier I would have measured mine whilst at the workshop. If you have no joy by tomorrow, I will measure mine (CE) and send you the dimensions.

Ring CE if you can. Dave and Mandy are always very helpful.

Mine are Creative and fit like a surgeons glove !

620w x 443l

That's the frame size rather than window aperture.

It sounds like your bus has had some serious work to the apertures in the past ?

Cheers

Jonny

so my spare set in the loft which I believe are an early Creative mild steel set are....

Measured from outer edge of hinge down to dash tab mount 440mm and 435mm
Measure across the top of the slider mounts 588mm

No drain holes in the corners

Many thanks for all replies. I'll get out there tomorrow and play some more. I'll also give CE a call as soon as I've checked out if the hinges have any braze on them and take some measurements of the glass. Was going to do it today but my mobile went out of action so had to go and buy another one.
Just to clear a few things up....they aren't double-skinned and there aren't any drain holes in them. There are depressions in the top body frame on the bus to fit the hinges to.
When I got them the glass was in them but the seals were falling apart. They also have a bit of rust here and there but still worth restoring. So I got onto CE to ask them how they come apart. They were indeed, very helpful. They were a sod to get apart but they are in bits now.
I've just assembled the frames to get some position on the lower panel before I spot-weld it to the front panel. The previous owner had just welded the front panel over the top of the top rib of the old front panel, thus reducing the window aperture, and then just applied some filler. As luck would have it, he hadn't drilled the holes for the wiper spindles! This poor old bus has had a rough time in the hands of a twit. It has taken me a long time to get all the layers of metal and filler off it to get to the point where I can fit some new proper metal.
I'll be back in a couple of days.

My dims are max sizes, i.e the biggest part of the frame.